SMW '19: Tulix谈论低延迟流

以下是采访全文:

Tim Siglin: 欢迎回来，流媒体西部2019第一天即将结束. I'm Tim Siglin, Contributing Editor of 流媒体杂志 and the founding Executive Director of the not-for-profit Help Me! Stream. 今天我请来了乔治，他是Tulix的创始人之一. 乔治，有些观众可能不知道，Tulix是什么?

乔治·Bokuchava: Tulix是一家位于佐治亚州亚特兰大的完整软件流媒体解决方案公司. 我们做生意已经很多年了. 很多年，我说的是20多年.

Tim Siglin: Right.

乔治·Bokuchava: 我们的基础是互联网知识. 很多年前，我们是互联网的先驱之一. 大约10年前，我们决定专注于流媒体.

Tim Siglin: Okay.

乔治·Bokuchava: 流媒体服务. And our background and knowledge and experience of the internet gives us a huge advantage in building solutions which are robust, 哪些是具有成本效益的，哪些是用户友好的. 如果我们可以说圆.你可能还记得 .公司纷纷进入互联网的时代?

Tim Siglin: H-hmm.

乔治·Bokuchava: 我们来自那个时代. 我们是幸存者中的一员, 在这一点上运用我们所有的经验和知识, 我们建立的基础设施. 人们会在我们身边呆上二十年甚至更久. And this is how... 管理我们的公司. One of the features maybe, or something to mention is we have twenty-plus-year-old history. 我们有些客户在我们这里呆了15年以上. 也许这是有原因的.

Tim Siglin: 当你说端到端解决方案时, 这包括:编码, trans-coding, 内容分发播放器支持?

乔治·Bokuchava: Absolutely. 我们有一个非常有趣的方法. 我不知道是否还有其他公司存在. 但是我们有更有趣的方法. 我们有一个所谓的默认设置. Default setup, we're using a number of third-party products which are very cost effective and they have sufficient quality to satisfy probably eighty percent of the customers. 现在，在一些情况下，我们有非常具体的要求. 在这种情况下，我们会很高兴，或者我们会升级任何组件. Would be it encoding, would it be CDN, would be any other parts of the complete OGD solution. 只是，我们正在用市场上最好的解决方案进行升级吗. And we're talking about scaling from the smallest and the most inexpensive solutions to the most expensive and has the best solutions available to market. 只要适合客户.

Tim Siglin: So one of the things I know you and I have talked about in the past is how important latency is. 看起来这个行业终于, 在经历了几年的, 让我们用碎片来衡量, and chunking, 这从本质上增加了交付的延迟, are now really concerned in the opposite direction that we don't have low-latency streaming. 正如你所说，你已经在这里工作了20年，对延迟的推动是新的东西吗? Or is it something that we painted ourselves in the corner with fragmented solutions that we're trying out how to get out of that corner and back to lower-latency delivery?

乔治·Bokuchava: 有趣的是. 这也是一个非常大的问题或话题. 有趣的是, 在分块视频解决方案之前, like HLS, DASH, CMAF, 还有所谓的RTMP, RTSP. 或者实际上EMBONE，当你谈到多播是互联网上的解决方案. We're talking about almost no latency or so any significant latency that no one was talking about. 现在，因为cdn的便利性，因为一些特定的硬件产品. 就像苹果，会有一个这样的公司. 有所谓的基于块的HTTP协议. 方便很好. Actually cost-savings are great for CDNs which obviously is transferred to the customers. 但是突然之间，低延迟的问题出现了. It's a true problem because not only latency from the point of you compare to the original stream. But there's also problem than you have seen Wise is in the same room and all this time we're playing different--

Tim Siglin: 没有同步.

乔治·Bokuchava: 是的，没有同步. Imagine if it's even on the engineering side or monitoring side, it could create difficulties. So, 实际上是我们的定倍解, we're in the very good position because with an infrastructure that we have with optimize routing out of just couple of bigger notes that we have, 我们可以推进任何协议. 这是任何协议. 可以是任何东西, actually, including for their correction protocol between us and the clients or the players who can do that too. 但很明显，我们要看到，我们花了半天的时间来实现. 我们即将看到其中一个节目的小样.

Tim Siglin: Sure.

乔治·Bokuchava: 但另一方面, 显然，我们的合作伙伴和合作伙伴正在推动我们获得延迟解决方案. 但我的回答是，让我们等待最大的家伙. 那些大人物会想出解决办法的. 这种解决方案可能会成为一种标准. Now, no one knows for sure, but I think one of the recent activities were done by Apple. 他们想出了更低的延迟.

Tim Siglin: Right.

乔治·Bokuchava: HTTP或HLS协议，但解决方案. 我认为很有可能会有一个好的解决方案. And if not that, something else, in my opinion will show up which will be pushed by big players. 这样我们就不需要所有的小解. 比如，我们公司有五种不同的解决方案，协议. 而且它们都是专有的. 你可以命名，但你知道，它实际上有五种不同的解. 我宁愿等到主电源出现并全力支持.

Tim Siglin: 你提到了WebRTC, of course, just like RTMP, WebRTC有一个规模问题, 不需要使用内容传递网络之类的东西. So where is the balance between very low latencies like WebRTC and very scalable solutions like HLS and DASH? 你觉得这两者之间有中间地带吗? 还是会越来越接近WebRTC的延迟? 而不是我们在分块解决方案中遇到的多秒冷却?

乔治·Bokuchava: 在我看来，我们即将看到更大的问题. Just my opinion. 不仅仅是可扩展性. 由于我们活动的性质，我们要处理很多不同的平台.

Tim Siglin: Okay.

乔治·Bokuchava: Starting from smart TVs and going through all these Amazon Fire, Apple TV, and you know. 几乎任何可以播放的设备. 在很多情况下，我们有条件访问, 在许多情况下，我们有数字版权管理, And you know it's easy to come up with an almost lab-based solution where you get a stream on one device or just couple devices. 而且很干净... 但一旦进入全面生产模式, 那你就得撑住, I don't know, 好莱坞工作室的东西. I can't imagine what we're about to see at this point, being sufficient or utilize for any solutions.

Tim Siglin: For major live sporting events, where piracy is a big concern and authentication's a big concern.

乔治·Bokuchava: So to answer a little bit closer to the response that I think which will be a chunk-based protocol, 哪个会被修改，哪个会被调整. 不仅仅是通过减少频道的大小，而是任何技术的出现. 这里的方法是使它尽可能接近实时. 或者它可能是一个全新的协议，但它将是, in my opinion, 实施起来要痛苦得多. (蒂姆笑)因为我们看到了各种各样的东西

Tim Siglin: Sure.

乔治·Bokuchava: 再说一遍，你可以做任何你想做的. Let's say I have maybe five different protocols of which initially one of them is done by a company in Atlanta where we're operating. They have their solution which being used for one of the largest auction houses in the world.

Tim Siglin: Okay.

乔治·Bokuchava: 但是，这只是一个解. 将解决方案纳入主流，我的看法是另一回事.

Tim Siglin: All right. 乔治，一如既往地感谢你的宝贵时间. 我们马上回来，可能会在今天结束前再进行一次采访.

乔治·Bokuchava: 非常感谢.